Potential Issue with the donation system
, Thu Jun 12 2014, 09:42PMVery recently, A member of Mojang released a statement based on servers receiving money. They have released a set of rules to dictate what server owners can and cannot make money from. Previously, It was technically illegal to make money off of a server (This was never really enforced, but still), but that rule has since been lifted so it is no longer an issue.
However the problem that has come from this new set of rules, directly ties into CF:UK's donation system, More specifically with kits. The new system dictates that donations can be made to a server without legal issue but, and this is a big but, cannot have some sort of reward for donating. The issue here is that kits, teleporting and warps all come under this reward status, effectively making them illegitimate.
Now this could raise a huge legal issue for the server, as these changes have already gone through. For more information I have linked the original article, and a video explaining the issue in layman's terms.
Article - mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation/
Youtube video (Thanks to the YT channel GameChap)
If you are reading this broonie, I urge you to do something regarding this new system, whether that be change the donator awards or try and see our kit and TP system doesn't apply to the rules. I really wouldn't want to see the server in legal issues, and i'm sure many others wouldn't either.
Thank you for your time
-Theak
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
BRooNiE, Thu Jun 12 2014, 10:41PM
It's amazing how everyone's been played by Mojang and turned people serving notices to communities like lawyers.
Anyways, we've always been in breach one way or another, running a modded server is technically in breach, which we've done since day 1.
BRooNiE, Thu Jun 12 2014, 10:41PM
It's amazing how everyone's been played by Mojang and turned people serving notices to communities like lawyers.
Anyways, we've always been in breach one way or another, running a modded server is technically in breach, which we've done since day 1.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
draze, Thu Jun 12 2014, 10:55PM
The original EULA (cant remember the exact wording tbh) basically suggested that any modifications of the original content without prior authorisation from mojang is in breach of copyright/modification laws and would be dealt with accordingly (They haven't really been enforcing this really).
The wording they used was on a slightly lighter tone along the lines of "your getting donations? ok stop now or we'll take legal action". or "ok so you aren't getting donations. Please stop using our coding to make your modifications" standard cease and desist patter.
there was something based around the use of such content for both single player and multiplayer platforms basically stating the same thing.
We can't make you play on CFUK besides some verbal encouragement
but we wont stop you either.
So the choice is yours. I for one wont stop playing or donating.
Besides... how many of you can say you've never "free loaded" something online in your life? (dont respond to that question just think about it)
So really this EULA doesn't change anything.
game on guys.
draze, Thu Jun 12 2014, 10:55PM
The original EULA (cant remember the exact wording tbh) basically suggested that any modifications of the original content without prior authorisation from mojang is in breach of copyright/modification laws and would be dealt with accordingly (They haven't really been enforcing this really).
The wording they used was on a slightly lighter tone along the lines of "your getting donations? ok stop now or we'll take legal action". or "ok so you aren't getting donations. Please stop using our coding to make your modifications" standard cease and desist patter.
there was something based around the use of such content for both single player and multiplayer platforms basically stating the same thing.
We can't make you play on CFUK besides some verbal encouragement
but we wont stop you either.
So the choice is yours. I for one wont stop playing or donating.
Besides... how many of you can say you've never "free loaded" something online in your life? (dont respond to that question just think about it)
So really this EULA doesn't change anything.
game on guys.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
Freddyfrog, Thu Jun 12 2014, 11:19PM
Remind me who actually likes or listens to Mojang ?
Freddyfrog, Thu Jun 12 2014, 11:19PM
Remind me who actually likes or listens to Mojang ?
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
draze, Thu Jun 12 2014, 11:30PM
The only time players really pay attention to Mojang is waiting for the notification of their login servers coming back up.
(Or apparently during this debaucle)
I also informed Broonie over PM but only incase he hadn't heard about it yet.
Saying that though, with all the "muscle grooming" Mojang have been doing i'd be surprised if anyone hasn't.
Besides i doubt mojang really has the legal resources to go after every single person using modded content or every single small to tiny servers.
This actually reminds me of the waffling Microsoft used to throw at us about using illegal MS software.
The only ones that really got hammered on :
1. had to recieve a cease and desist notification first and
2. had probably been downloading 100's of Gb constantly.
So in the mighty words of Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy.
Dont Panic!
draze, Thu Jun 12 2014, 11:30PM
The only time players really pay attention to Mojang is waiting for the notification of their login servers coming back up
.(Or apparently during this debaucle)
I also informed Broonie over PM but only incase he hadn't heard about it yet.
Saying that though, with all the "muscle grooming" Mojang have been doing i'd be surprised if anyone hasn't.
Besides i doubt mojang really has the legal resources to go after every single person using modded content or every single small to tiny servers.
This actually reminds me of the waffling Microsoft used to throw at us about using illegal MS software.
The only ones that really got hammered on :
1. had to recieve a cease and desist notification first and
2. had probably been downloading 100's of Gb constantly.
So in the mighty words of Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy.
Dont Panic!
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
Aconan, Fri Jun 13 2014, 12:07AM
The two features of donator-ship listed below now conflict with the new rules/regs.
- Spawn stacks of common blocks using kits instantly!
- Set your own warps!
It should be up to the community to decide what they want in return for donating.
But I do have a few suggestions.
Existing ranks are renamed, and a new one is added. Abilities stay the same sans coloured name.
- VIP > Elite : All current VIPs are set at this rank (and past VIPs)
- Donator > Advanced: All current donators and past are set at this rank.
- Trusted > Same perks as donator. Given when nominate by 5 + members after either a month of play or 50 hours of playtime, which-ever comes first.
- Default > Stays as default.
Players will gain ranks on how well they contribute to the server society. Ranked up for winning events, buildings, and nomination by players. Beggars can lose ranks.
Rewards for donating? The ability to chose a colour for your name, bar the reserved staff colours. (Staff can all be chucked under one colour).
Particle effects/hats/cats are entirely up to you.
TL:DR
Give everyone that donated in the past the same rank and abilities. Allow for defaults to reach that rank via community vote. Donations are rewarded with coloured names and shiny pixel effects...
...and hats... lots of hats..
And yes this is crap, and we are unlikely to come under their spot-light. However perhaps we should make some attempt to mould into their new regime. Especially since this has been an issue they are currently speaking out on.
EDIT: I would like to note that the EULA is rather ineffective when it comes to the courts.
Aconan, Fri Jun 13 2014, 12:07AM
The two features of donator-ship listed below now conflict with the new rules/regs.
- Spawn stacks of common blocks using kits instantly!
- Set your own warps!
It should be up to the community to decide what they want in return for donating.
But I do have a few suggestions.
Existing ranks are renamed, and a new one is added. Abilities stay the same sans coloured name.
- VIP > Elite : All current VIPs are set at this rank (and past VIPs)
- Donator > Advanced: All current donators and past are set at this rank.
- Trusted > Same perks as donator. Given when nominate by 5 + members after either a month of play or 50 hours of playtime, which-ever comes first.
- Default > Stays as default.
Players will gain ranks on how well they contribute to the server society. Ranked up for winning events, buildings, and nomination by players. Beggars can lose ranks.
Rewards for donating? The ability to chose a colour for your name, bar the reserved staff colours. (Staff can all be chucked under one colour).
Particle effects/hats/cats are entirely up to you.
TL:DR
Give everyone that donated in the past the same rank and abilities. Allow for defaults to reach that rank via community vote. Donations are rewarded with coloured names and shiny pixel effects...
...and hats... lots of hats..
And yes this is crap, and we are unlikely to come under their spot-light. However perhaps we should make some attempt to mould into their new regime. Especially since this has been an issue they are currently speaking out on.
EDIT: I would like to note that the EULA is rather ineffective when it comes to the courts.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
SpinDreams, Fri Jun 13 2014, 07:44AM
AFAICS these "rules" are really just for some of the more aggressive big mini game type servers where you can essentially pay to win and where costs can be upwards of 100$, apparently lots of parents have been hit by large bills from their kids stealing their CC to buy in game advantages and where do they complain, not to the server admins but to Mojang.
I do however like the idea of earning extras for contributing to the server, I think one thing lacking on here is an incentive to be creative and help out or even just to play, it should at least mean more people online.
Community is everything on servers like CF and so some reward for being an active part of the community would be most welcome.
SpinDreams, Fri Jun 13 2014, 07:44AM
AFAICS these "rules" are really just for some of the more aggressive big mini game type servers where you can essentially pay to win and where costs can be upwards of 100$, apparently lots of parents have been hit by large bills from their kids stealing their CC to buy in game advantages and where do they complain, not to the server admins but to Mojang.
I do however like the idea of earning extras for contributing to the server, I think one thing lacking on here is an incentive to be creative and help out or even just to play, it should at least mean more people online.
Community is everything on servers like CF and so some reward for being an active part of the community would be most welcome.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
Squippit, Fri Jun 13 2014, 10:36AM
So then what? The kit/warp perks were kind of incentive to donate, and without them, is Broonie expected to pay entirely for the server by himself? O-o I'm not sure how expensive CFUK servers are, but we have like... 2 of em. And I'm not sure how well funded they are.
I'm all for continuing to break the rules just as we always have cause I'm fairly confident these things aren't going to be enforced on us. I can't say Mojang has ever gotten a complaint leading back to us so... why should they come after us?
(P.S. Broons, I'm still willing to donate, I just don't have a paypal account. I can send you USD in the mail though
)
Squippit, Fri Jun 13 2014, 10:36AM
So then what? The kit/warp perks were kind of incentive to donate, and without them, is Broonie expected to pay entirely for the server by himself? O-o I'm not sure how expensive CFUK servers are, but we have like... 2 of em. And I'm not sure how well funded they are.
I'm all for continuing to break the rules just as we always have cause I'm fairly confident these things aren't going to be enforced on us. I can't say Mojang has ever gotten a complaint leading back to us so... why should they come after us?
(P.S. Broons, I'm still willing to donate, I just don't have a paypal account. I can send you USD in the mail though
)Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
draze, Fri Jun 13 2014, 06:41PM
Your feelings on that subject are of course right squippit. Donations are exactly as they sound (Help to keep our awesome community chugging along in the breeze) some may have only donated for the perks of it but you always know us die hard CFUK maniacs will keep donating just because we can.
draze, Fri Jun 13 2014, 06:41PM
Your feelings on that subject are of course right squippit. Donations are exactly as they sound (Help to keep our awesome community chugging along in the breeze) some may have only donated for the perks of it but you always know us die hard CFUK maniacs will keep donating just because we can.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
Freddyfrog, Fri Jun 13 2014, 08:07PM
If it helps grow the community with non donator based perks , then people who are willing to donate will no doubt roll in also . The idea of aconans by having a sort of ranking system will keep people on to earn their play times and this buisness model is often used on Garries Mod servers as a way of getting people to play for longer to gain "hats" and "trails" something like that would most likely work , perhaps players having the ability to choose from , kits or tps for a limited time or some other thing .
( im not sure it would work or not but hey ho just random suggestions )
(garries mod is a steam game incase your wondering , a very good one which cfuk should have a server on wink wink )
Freddyfrog, Fri Jun 13 2014, 08:07PM
If it helps grow the community with non donator based perks , then people who are willing to donate will no doubt roll in also . The idea of aconans by having a sort of ranking system will keep people on to earn their play times and this buisness model is often used on Garries Mod servers as a way of getting people to play for longer to gain "hats" and "trails" something like that would most likely work , perhaps players having the ability to choose from , kits or tps for a limited time or some other thing .
( im not sure it would work or not but hey ho just random suggestions )
(garries mod is a steam game incase your wondering , a very good one which cfuk should have a server on wink wink )
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
AlexKockica, Sun Jun 15 2014, 01:40PM
make the perk system like this.. u donated? thank you. Than tell that player, oh I think you are a good player and that dirt placement was amazing, you totally deserve these kits, name color and warps, completely unrelated to the fact you donated!
solved. xD
jk but yeah, don't think this will ever be a problem..
AlexKockica, Sun Jun 15 2014, 01:40PM
make the perk system like this.. u donated? thank you. Than tell that player, oh I think you are a good player and that dirt placement was amazing, you totally deserve these kits, name color and warps, completely unrelated to the fact you donated!
solved. xD
jk but yeah, don't think this will ever be a problem..
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
Changyeo1999, Sun Jun 15 2014, 03:57PM
Hello everybody! Changyeo here, some of you old members may remember me. How have you all been?
I was just on my monthly check to see how everyone's doing, and I noticed that CFUK has been affected by the EULA change too.
As the same as on the server I play on now, it's the premium perks that seem to be breaching Mojang's new EULA. They say that anyone who donates shouldn't be eligible to any sort of... anything, really[even though it isn't technically donating, as you all receive something back in return]. Well, except a hat, we all love hats...
Looks to me like Mojang is killing themselves - this change is going to cut off a lot of donations which will inevitably lead to a lot of servers closing.
The only way a player can support a server now is through a donation, which will result in nothing other than a 'Thank you', and possibly a hat. This will only lead to the true 'donators' shining through to support a server [the die hard maniacs, as draze put it 
], as many wouldn't 'donate' for absolutely nothing.
Alternatively, Mojang said it was OK to have advertising on servers, which would probably cause more harm than good, as it would annoy a lot of the playerbase... because [SARCASM] We ALL love adverts [/SARCASM] *wink*
How Mojang thinks this idea would work effectively is beyond me.
Anyway, I'll try check back a little more often just to say 'Hi' to everyone. But for now, bye, and good luck with the server, Broonie!
EDIT: Oh any by the way, congratulations on mod/admin, Mega and Draze!
Changyeo1999, Sun Jun 15 2014, 03:57PM
Hello everybody! Changyeo here, some of you old members may remember me
. How have you all been?I was just on my monthly check to see how everyone's doing, and I noticed that CFUK has been affected by the EULA change too.
As the same as on the server I play on now, it's the premium perks that seem to be breaching Mojang's new EULA. They say that anyone who donates shouldn't be eligible to any sort of... anything, really[even though it isn't technically donating, as you all receive something back in return]. Well, except a hat, we all love hats...
Looks to me like Mojang is killing themselves - this change is going to cut off a lot of donations which will inevitably lead to a lot of servers closing.
The only way a player can support a server now is through a donation, which will result in nothing other than a 'Thank you', and possibly a hat
. This will only lead to the true 'donators' shining through to support a server [the die hard maniacs, as draze put it ], as many wouldn't 'donate' for absolutely nothing. Alternatively, Mojang said it was OK to have advertising on servers, which would probably cause more harm than good, as it would annoy a lot of the playerbase... because [SARCASM] We ALL love adverts [/SARCASM] *wink*
How Mojang thinks this idea would work effectively is beyond me.
Anyway, I'll try check back a little more often just to say 'Hi' to everyone. But for now, bye, and good luck with the server, Broonie!
EDIT: Oh any by the way, congratulations on mod/admin, Mega and Draze!
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
draze, Sun Jun 15 2014, 05:28PM
Aye, as Broonie and some others have mentioned. We're a small server, maybe only 25 fully regular active players and around 30 variable actives. The servers mostly being targeted are the 100-200+ regular player base with multiple modded/unmodded servers who take very large amounts for donations or sales of very "odd" things for huge amounts.
For example (no naming servers) however i know of one who sells armor/swords etc for £20 a pop, even as far as to sell stacks of dirt for £1... i mean seriously?... anyway.
The moral of the story here is "if we stay under the radar we dont get shot" and if we eventually do get rumbled then we change our approach. There is always 1 warning for legal purposes before action is taken.
draze, Sun Jun 15 2014, 05:28PM
Aye, as Broonie and some others have mentioned. We're a small server, maybe only 25 fully regular active players and around 30 variable actives. The servers mostly being targeted are the 100-200+ regular player base with multiple modded/unmodded servers who take very large amounts for donations or sales of very "odd" things for huge amounts.
For example (no naming servers) however i know of one who sells armor/swords etc for £20 a pop, even as far as to sell stacks of dirt for £1... i mean seriously?... anyway.
The moral of the story here is "if we stay under the radar we dont get shot" and if we eventually do get rumbled then we change our approach. There is always 1 warning for legal purposes before action is taken.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
Squippit, Sun Jun 15 2014, 08:58PM
Sounds good to me. If nothing else, as someone mentioned, we can bypass the rules by instead donating to the website rather than the server.
Squippit, Sun Jun 15 2014, 08:58PM
Sounds good to me. If nothing else, as someone mentioned, we can bypass the rules by instead donating to the website rather than the server.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
Changyeo1999, Mon Jun 16 2014, 03:37PM
That's nothing. There're servers that are selling ranks for $10,000. And even worse - people who actually buy these ranks for nothing other than to spawn in with creative mode etc.
Changyeo1999, Mon Jun 16 2014, 03:37PM
That's nothing. There're servers that are selling ranks for $10,000. And even worse - people who actually buy these ranks for nothing other than to spawn in with creative mode etc.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
, Mon Jun 16 2014, 06:54PM
Hi All,
I think this is nothing to worry about. We could simply remove the list of perks for donations from the public website. Perks can be gifted as per Alex's and others comments as BRooNiE sees fit.
Sorted.
, Mon Jun 16 2014, 06:54PM
Hi All,
I think this is nothing to worry about. We could simply remove the list of perks for donations from the public website. Perks can be gifted as per Alex's and others comments as BRooNiE sees fit.
Sorted.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
SpinDreams, Tue Jun 17 2014, 10:33AM
Kinda misses the point of the perks which are to bring in more donations, if no one knows about them then no one will donate to get them. Personally I would just leave it as it is until such time as Mojang decide to enforce it.
My feeling is that it might also be a way for Mojang to increase use of their pay for "realms" service by trying to kill of the competition.
SpinDreams, Tue Jun 17 2014, 10:33AM
Kinda misses the point of the perks which are to bring in more donations, if no one knows about them then no one will donate to get them. Personally I would just leave it as it is until such time as Mojang decide to enforce it.
My feeling is that it might also be a way for Mojang to increase use of their pay for "realms" service by trying to kill of the competition.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
SpinDreams, Tue Jun 17 2014, 10:44AM
I just had an idea, since I have so much stuff on the vanilla server and a pretty unlimited supply via various farms etc, i'm gonna start selling it for real money... If I make anything I will give it to Broonie.... well maybe 50/50.
SpinDreams, Tue Jun 17 2014, 10:44AM
I just had an idea, since I have so much stuff on the vanilla server and a pretty unlimited supply via various farms etc, i'm gonna start selling it for real money... If I make anything I will give it to Broonie.... well maybe 50/50.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
404thread, Tue Jun 17 2014, 09:11PM
I say we fight the system and amp up the Donation perks to the quadruple!
Also donators should now get free hats saying "FC:UK Mojang"
404thread, Tue Jun 17 2014, 09:11PM
I say we fight the system and amp up the Donation perks to the quadruple!
Also donators should now get free hats saying "FC:UK Mojang"
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
Squippit, Tue Jun 17 2014, 10:14PM
Ha, I get it, because our server's abbreviation is an anagram of a common swear word. Ha. Fools United Crazy Kingdom, yknow?
Squippit, Tue Jun 17 2014, 10:14PM
Ha, I get it, because our server's abbreviation is an anagram of a common swear word. Ha. Fools United Crazy Kingdom, yknow?
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
draze, Tue Jun 17 2014, 10:29PM
And Spin hits it on the head. Think about the "coincidental" timing of this EULA and the release opening of the "Realms" marketing at it's best.
One hand feeds the other by removing the customers feet forcing them to spend more money on gloves.
draze, Tue Jun 17 2014, 10:29PM
And Spin hits it on the head. Think about the "coincidental" timing of this EULA and the release opening of the "Realms" marketing at it's best.
One hand feeds the other by removing the customers feet forcing them to spend more money on gloves.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
Changyeo1999, Wed Jun 18 2014, 04:20PM
In the words of Sterling,
For those of you who are interested, ][\][otch has considered Sterling's letter, and will hopefully reconsider the EULA.
Hopefully, he may start to reconsider these recent changes.
Changyeo1999, Wed Jun 18 2014, 04:20PM
In the words of Sterling,
Sterling
You must see why this looks like your lawyers were just building in a legal kill-switch, leaving us to grow large (helping to grow the Minecraft player-base to the size it is now), and then waiting until you had your own multiplayer service to execute the kill-switch and try have us shut down so players would have to come use Realms. I don’t know that I personally believe this, but that is one of the rationales being thrown around because server owners are trying to understand the motives behind the recent changes in policy and the unwillingness of Mojang to discuss and compromise on those changes.
For those of you who are interested, ][\][otch has considered Sterling's letter, and will hopefully reconsider the EULA.
Hopefully, he may start to reconsider these recent changes.
Re: Potential Issue with the donation system
BRooNiE, Wed Jun 18 2014, 05:03PM
Since Theakman is using an invalid e-mail address, and the server complains. I'm moving the discussion to here
BRooNiE, Wed Jun 18 2014, 05:03PM
Since Theakman is using an invalid e-mail address, and the server complains. I'm moving the discussion to here
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