According to a religious zealot from the US, he believes that at 7am UK time today our lives will be no more and that we will face judgement.

This got me pondering, and by no means am I intent on causing a flame war between believers and non. I'm not an Atheist but am Agnostic which means i neither believe nor disbelieve. So you could say i'm on the fence.

However, while thinking about Life, the Universe and everything (42!) I settled on my own opinion of this mans hypothesis of Rapture whether it be today or thousands of years from now.

Why would God choose our planet, of the billions and billions of potentially life supporting worlds (including micro organisms as well as sentient beings as ALL life is sacred dont forget!) in our Universe to be summoned to hell or heaven?

my assumption of the figures is purely based on the findings of scientists discovering extremophiles, and lately a being on earth discovered that isn't even carbon based that adds to the odds of life elsewhere; so of course it's only my opinion and is of little worth. given that assumption which being either accurate or out to within a billion (which still leaves alot!), i think it's kinda selfish to presume god isn't happy with us and demands retribution. Why would God as an all loving, all forgiving being create the perfect race in the image of himself, only to destroy it merely nanoseconds in universal timescales later?

I suppose you could argue that he who creates so easily can also destroy so easily. However, why would someone so powerful need an excuse to destroy his creation? but that brings me back to the creation of life in the image of oneself argument if we were to assume God's mentality in the bible is accurate enough to go by.

anyway it's just my thought meanderings. Something of which I do alot in the wee hours when a few too many glasses of booze down this isn't really meant for heated debate, but those with something productive to say are welcome to comment

I just dont belive the "RAPTURE" wont happen im 100% atheist I could belive like the 2012 thing since that sounds more realistic than zombies poping out for a vist.

ahhh sucked in by the mayan longcount that even the modern day mayans aren't bothered about

bootnote, that wasn't a dig btw. just that i've done alot of reading on that subject while maintaining an unbiased view when it comes to 2012 theories. it's an interesting read if you've an open mind

agnostics are atheists without balls in my opinion. it seems like you feel strongly about the issue d2, since you have given mutch thought to your posted ideas. it doesn't seem to me that you even see the existence of a god as likely because you use alot of irony in your post and tend to try to disprove the existence of a god.
i'd say you are an atheist, you just dont know it yet.

agnostics are atheists without balls in my opinion. it seems like you feel strongly about the issue d2, since you have given mutch thought to your posted ideas. it doesn't seem to me that you even see the existence of a god as likely because you use alot of irony in your post and tend to try to disprove the existence of a god.
i'd say you are an atheist, you just dont know it yet.

404thread

that's an interesting accusation. and i think i'm right is saying accusation too.

I'm happy with living with the unknown barrier between science and religion. science so far can only explain so much. Beyond that it's merely speculation and faith of which i have not yet decided. please keep the topic on a sensible subject as requested in my first post.

I'd like to reiterate my point of not wanting to start flame wars on our religious beliefs, so i wont (and dont) feel the need to justify my position. please respect other's beliefs.

I will say that I do believe in God, but I'm not ignorant to scientific evidence on how the universe was created. I'm not going to go in depth on my beliefs. Anyway, I don't think the rapture will happen tomorrow or today (Saturday). This guy made a prediction before and he was wrong and I doubt he will be right this time... If it does happen Saturday, it won't exactly end the world right away. In the Bible it says believers will be instantly sent to heaven and non believers will stay on earth and face the apocalypse for 5 months, then the world will end. As to why God would destroy a "perfect" creation, is that it is not so perfect. He knew he would have to destroy his creation someday because of too much sin.

Don't say anything about proving that God is real, because that's not what this thread is for. No one can prove that he is or isn't real.

Don't say anything about proving that God is real, because that's not what this thread is for. No one can prove that he is or isn't real.

dubien

that's exactly the type of response i was looking for

my point of the post was to hear other's views. as in for them to read my perception and retort but without causing offence

i'm one for reasoning and this is a damned good reason for me to contemplate some more. Thank you

Dubien, i have a question and before i go on, many thanks for taking a higher standpoint on a subject that would otherwise be sensitive to most.

keeping with the high morale fibre of this conversation, i'd like your views on this:

i've read the translated versions of the Torah, Qur'an and the old and new Testament, and found that they all very closely run along the same lines. this makes sense as most of them were translated from language(s) of the time they were written. granted some are more diverse than others... even then they all still fundamentally follow the same lines though. i'm not arguing the point of translation as that's been a debate of centuries and doesn't need further debate here.

however i need clarification... was it the OLD testament that spoke of rapture? book of genesis i recall? as that was the only difference between translations of various religious texts i've read.

i'm not picking points mate, please believe me when i say i WANT you to pick faults in my points. I can only learn more and grow stronger if i'm corrected with the facts.

I'm not exactly a religious expert, but I will try to explain what I know. (I may be false on some things.) Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have the same roots, but are very different in what they believe in. The rapture is only mentioned in the Bible (Christian book) in the New Testament, not the Old Testament. The New Testament tells how Jesus is the son of God. Judaism and Islam both only recognize Jesus as a prophet. So obviously they wouldn't have the New Testament in their books. The rapture tells how Jesus comes to earth and saves believers and punishes non believers. So only Christians believe in the rapture, and a smaller group of Christians believes it is going to happen tomorrow.

I would say more, but I have to go.

yep, agreed on the prophet part

i'm gunna have to read up now on why and how the rapture got added to the new testament and didn't exist in the others. i mistakenly remembered it was the other way around, Armageddon in book of genesis and OT but not in NT.

thanks!

I heard frOm a friend at school and my cousin. My cousin told me that it's just another rumor that some guy made up. I wouldnt believe it if I were ou, unless this story is told in the new testament

In fact it's just gone 7am now... Nothing's happening

The bible is a book with stories in it, written by multiple people at different times, where each writer had there own views and goals with what they wrote. There is no evidence stating that the stories are true. So no one should rely on a book written by people over 2 thousand years ago as to be 100% accurate. That doesn't mean you can't have faith, just that you should never trust anything in it "As the word of god".

The bible to me sounds like it was designed to try and force people to believe in it, if you don't do what it sais then you will goto Hell, etc. Even if you are a good person, as long as you don't believe there are some who view that as a reason for you to goto hell, even though people who commit murders can get into heaven just by repenting there sins at the last minute(Id have thought that being a good person rather than believing and worshipping in a god would be the key to getting into heaven).

So having these doomsday events imo is just another way to get people to believe by scaring them with gods destructive powers.

You(D2) mentioned that you didn't know why earth is special and the only place where things goto heaven/hell. Thats simply because 2000 years ago people never though there was any kind of life on other planets. They believed that earth was the only planet capable of sustaining life (They couldn't see planets in other galaxy's to my knowledge).

One of the things i always think is interesting is that the scientists use to be the monks themselves. It seems that once science started to dis-prove parts of religion that the two split from each other and formed separate groups.

And yes if you haven't guessed it by now i don't believe that there is any god(s). Even if there are i don't believe that they would be worthy of worship given all the bad things that are allowed to happen(The whole why worship a god if even the most devout religious people are allowed to be murdered/raped/etc by there god).

Disclaimer: These are my personal views, so please do not flame me for having different views as i have not flamed anyone else.

@stucuk it's ok to be athiest no one is going to flame you. (well I wouldn't but you know what I mean)

I believe in god but I don't believe the events that are going to happen today or in 2012 whether these subjects are believable or not.

Anyway the person who made the rapture thing up also done this 1994 and I know cos I've read on the BBC website. I have also listened in on the news, and apparently the rapture is really going to happen at 6pm GMT tonight ad well

But back to the point I wouldn't believe the rapture or 2012 or any bullshit like that guys but Im free to opinions on this subject though

I like the point of 2000 years ago no one new of other planets. I feel i may need to correct you on two of your points though, the Jews dont believe in Hell, and there is evidence of a man called Jesus living between 0 and 32AD. So in the case of the Jewish religion there's not really anything bad to scaremonger people with.

personally i'm not really interested in just ONE of the holy books, it's reading them all and seeing the differences and the common points of them all. Granted they were written by man, but both the Torah and Qu'ran have remained identical for 2000 years, while it's the christian bible has been translated and amended over the years, So that was my reason for reading the 3.

we're still here i see although i woke up with a raging hangover which i dont get normally so that's my Rapture

So we have came to a conclusion:
There is gong to be no rapture and all of us will be able to go to sleep tonight bowing that there is going to be no rapture at the predicted 6pm GMT tonight, yeah?

Correct me if I'm wrong to those who have read this btw

Still alive

Iraq is still here...unfortunately.

Haha lol but yeah what the guys said before you...
We are still alive, so this rapture thing is now just a hoax.... I feel srry for those that were holding atheist parties have to cancel them now...

Although it was supposed to be yesterday I didn't actually believe it was going to happen. Mainly because it was just some dudes prediction.
But also because, to me personally its just a totally crazy claim.

There are so many times when we hear or read about something that may be out of the ordinary like mythical creatures, zombies or whatever and we just raise an eyebrow and laugh it off because believing something like that would be deemed madness by many. Yet when it comes to many religious claims, a lot of religious people forget about the things which they think is crazy, and act like its totally normal and rational.

The same logical processes they use to tell the difference between what's real and what isn't in life, aren't used within their religion. I find that very interesting.

I feel i may need to correct you on two of your points though, the Jews dont believe in Hell, and there is evidence of a man called Jesus living between 0 and 32AD. So in the case of the Jewish religion there's not really anything bad to scaremonger people with.

diablothe2nd

My views were in reference to Christian beliefs rather than Jews. In general most religious people in the US are Christians rather than Jews if i am correct, so i thought it was a safe bet that the guy who made the prophesy that the world would end may be Christian.

If there was a person called Jesus living back then makes no difference to anything, there is no proof that anyone back then was more than a man. The fact that a person back then had the name Jesus just means someone liked that name.

but both the Torah and Qu'ran have remained identical for 2000 years

diablothe2nd

Not changing in 2000 years doesn't mean its the truth. My point wasn't that its been changed through time, but that because it was so long ago there is no way to know the writers intentions or what really happened back then.

For all people know the bible may have been written as fiction, etc. Or it could just be that someone wanted to start a religion of there own, it doesn't mean that events depicted in the bible really happened or that a god spoke to people. The point is no one knows, so it shouldn't be treated as fact.

Still alive

dubien

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ljFaKRTrI

Couldn't resist. Looks like others had the same idea (Based on the comments on the video).

Here are my thoughts.
Yes, I do believe in a God who sent his son to save us, died, and rose again three days later. I'm not going to force you to believe as I do, nor can I.
The Bible says he (Jesus) will come like a thief in the night.
In other words, nobody knows when God will take the (true)
Christians to Heaven. (Not even Jesus himself.)
As for me? I'm just going to carry on life as normal. Nothing we can do about the rapture. (Read up on the book of Revalation if you'd like to see what the bible has to say about it.)

And so what if I end up being wrong? I wouldn't have anything to lose if there isn't a god / Heaven / Hell.

(Not meant to flame anything either.)

And so what if I end up being wrong? I wouldn't have anything to lose if there isn't a god / Heaven / Hell.

SampleName

yea, i know what you mean... i believed in santaclaus for 15 years, just to make shure i got presents every year.

I'm not going to force you to believe as I do, nor can I.

SampleName

I wish everyone in the world had that view.

Not changing in 2000 years doesn't mean its the truth. My point wasn't that its been changed through time, but that because it was so long ago there is no way to know the writers intentions or what really happened back then.

Stucuk

agreed. however if you wanted to know better or discover as close to truth as possible, or at the very least learn the untruths you have to look at all the evidence which is why i've read other religious texts. despite being written by completely different people in completely different languages and cultures there still remains many similarities. coincidence?

Personally i think a person called Jesus DID exist 2000 years ago. however i tend to lean towards the Muslim ideal that he was a prophet and not the son of god in the direct sense of the word.

anyway back on topic, we're still here. let's see what the mayan longcount has to say for us in 2012