EDIT: I'd also like to add another point to this - Minecraft makes sense. It follows basic physics (sometimes it cuts corners and sometimes it numbs certain bits of it down to keep it simple, a selling point of the game and what people love about it) but to me, having to set up two mine-carts to go along to each other to have some kind of magnetic effect for unlimited boost effect...just doesn't make sense. To me, it doesn't make sense scientifically (in MC anyway) in the same way a lot of the other Minecraft laws of physics do.

DavH27

Again, those are the conventional boosters. A cart going beside another cart is the conventional booster, in which several people have been complaining is not pretty. And I agree. But that is not the one we're using. The one we're using includes four or more carts hidden in a small compartment (not at ALL visible!) that generates a magnetic field. Yes, maybe it's not realistic - but consider this: would there not be some sort of magnetic field generated from four (or more) carts crashing together constantly? I think it would. Take the power of a car crash - as horrible it is, the forces at work is still awesome (awesome as in big, powerful, not cool!). You can in some way say that we're harnessing that power, hiding it so that it won't make everything look stupid and then boosting our carts with it so that it can go for endless distances without having as much as a single cart showing up out of nowhere to give you more boost.

Yes yes, it's a glitch. We may not have been counting on it to remain, but for him to fix it without giving us a proper way to deal with it first? At the current rate, the powered tracks are nowhere near good enough to deal with it the way we already are, and we can't be sure the increase of power to powered rails will. Instead of fixing this bug, he could try out his new ideas BEFORE forcing us to redesign everything, when we have no idea how well it can be done.

I'm not upset about him fixing a bug/glitch - I'm upset that we're not being given any sort of compensation for it (as far as we know as of yet).

I'd like to ride the rail this evening...get a feel for it's magnitude. Maybe then I'd see why you're upset if I can just grasp how much work would be involved in it's revamp. It is closed to public?

DavH27

It is open to the public. The North and West Rails have been connected to the New Spawn. If you go to Mossy Boulevard (take the first left upon leaving the spawn ship), you'll find a stairwell leading down into a cart launch system. Take either the West (Blinky and Minecraftblock0's system) or the North (mine). Both go quite some distance out.

I'd also like to add that the Western Line has a rather awesome build not too long after leaving spawn. It's Minecraftblock0's place, and you can't miss it. If you haven't seen it, I suggest you take the Western Skyrail. Very intriguing.
If you're up for taking both, feel free. Both are open to the public, and will always be (even after we may have to redesign it all).

but consider this: would there not be some sort of magnetic field generated from four (or more) carts crashing together constantly? I think it would.

Kahr

Nope. Metal objects crashing into each other do not create magnetic forces. Magnetic forces have nothing to do with impact forces.

Oyh, I know that. What you get is an awesome stopping power. Moving energy goes over to still energy, causing quite the stir.

Now if minecarts did that instead I think it'd cause quite a lot of chaos in Minecraft. I for one think it better that they cause a magnetic field than destruction.

In Minecraft like every invented world, there are things that are realistic to the Minecraft world, and things that are not. Magnetic fields created by crashes are not realistic to Minecraft.

Simply put if there was any kind of magnetic field that was as strong as you want it to be, every bit of metal you had on you would be sucked out of your pockets.

I saw a thread with a powered rail design which gave huge speeds. You have a loop with 4 powered rails (a redstone torch in the middle) and corners. Then you have a timing mechanism which will release your mine cart after a certain time onto the main track. Your minecart spins round the loop many times building up momentum, then its released and can travel a huge distance and uphill from those 4 power rails.

http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=308670

Simply put if there was any kind of magnetic field that was as strong as you want it to be, every bit of metal you had on you would be sucked out of your pockets.

Stucuk

But big floating islands are? I think a magnetic field seems less unlikely than unexplained floating islands (or houses or whatever). Looks far less weird as well.

Edit: How can you say that something does not seem realistic to Minecraft when it's been a fact up until now? There are a lot of things that would seem far less realistic.

And it has done absolutely no harm, except maybe for the poor people who manage to drop their carts unto the boost field without being in the cart - those people lost their cart.

I saw a thread with a powered rail design which gave huge speeds. You have a loop with 4 powered rails (a redstone torch in the middle) and corners. Then you have a timing mechanism which will release your mine cart after a certain time onto the main track. Your minecart spins round the loop many times building up momentum, then its released and can travel a huge distance and uphill from those 4 power rails.

kandiru

It's been done already on the server. Blinky has one of these on his beach. Tried it - not impressed. Yes, it'll probably work better with improved power from the powered rails, but the circle only sends you this and that far - and uphill it sucked. It wasn't even able to send the cart up to the height of the skyrail from Blinky's beach.

Not sure how useful the loop/speed build up will be to people, as this is the same thing as sending the cart in a straight line over multiple power rails connected together. Eventually, probably within 10 back-to-back power rail tracks, you will also reach the cart's max speed.

I guess its good if you have limited space (such as in train stations) or have limited resources and can afford only 4 power rails to start you off.... but the rapid speed loss still means you need to place rails at regular intervals to maintain speed, and the intervals are much closer together going uphill.

Notch has said he plans to buff up the power cart to make it worth using in some instances. It might be good enough for the initial push up the long hills, then have an empty cart detector on the track that sends you on your way and the power cart back to the bottom of the hill to wait for the next cart. The problem with that solution is... you have to feed the power cart fuel, and if it sits idle on the tracks (even if its not moving) it is using up the fuel. You have to push it off the tracks to save the fuel.

So, in the end, we are probably going to be using a ton of power rails going uphill, then spread them out again on flat sections. We should come up with a way to hide the power source, as exposed redstone torches are easy to accidentally break, and a high-value target for thieves/griefers. I don't like the method of using a detector track next to a power rail to power the rail...its very glitchy when the server gets slow, and often causes carts to stop mid-power rail.

But big floating islands are? I think a magnetic field seems less unlikely than unexplained floating islands (or houses or whatever). Looks far less weird as well.

Kahr

Floating islands as far as i understand are not an intentional feature of the terrain generator.

How can you say that something does not seem realistic to Minecraft when it's been a fact up until now? There are a lot of things that would seem far less realistic.

Kahr

Because its an exploit. Something that was never intended to be possible by the developers. There is nothing similar that was added by Notch which would make it seem like a realistic thing.

If by accident a patch made it so that when people died diamonds spawned, it wouldn't then be realistic to believe that everyone is made of diamonds.

Everything I've wanted to say has already been said by Stucuk but in a more articulated manner

Because its an exploit. Something that was never intended to be possible by the developers. There is nothing similar that was added by Notch which would make it seem like a realistic thing.

Stucuk

So everything added by Notch makes it realistic? Like lightning hitting pigs making them pigmen? Or the whole Creeper thing, a creature that simply walks over to you and blow up?

Yes, it is a bug/glitch, and using it may be an exploit of said bug/glitch, but I fail to see how keeping it around is a bad thing. I'm sorry, but your reasoning about "it not being realistic to the Minecraft universe" is something I just don't agree with. There is so much more good coming out of having it around than removing it all together.

I've already accepted that our cboosters will most likely crash and fail after 1.6 comes out - I am just saying that I disagree with the decision to remove it. I do not see the reason why.

Edit: Oh, and I pretty much agree with everything you said, block0. We're going to have a lot to figure out when the time comes.

This whole forum topic raises some pretty valid points for both sides of the argument.

I have put this to Notch on Twitter. Fingers crossed he takes a look over this who knows? He may have either an alternative, or would hint at the boosters staying

http://twitter.com/#!/MrDavidHarrison/status/71189649724416001

Haha. Naw, I've already accepted that we're going to have to look for alternatives. I was just upset that one of the less "bad" glitches just had to be fixed. I see how it's not "likely" and all, I do, but I feel like it ought to just have stayed, even if it was a mistake.

Oh well - time to find new things to rage about.

Aw don't worry, Kahr, you'll have the community's backing in revamping the rail, I'm sure I volunteer.

Hehe, I'm not worried about revamping the rails, I'm worried about not having enough initial boost. It'd stuck if we had to stick powered rails into every 10 to 20 blocks, honestly. But, we'll see. I foresee a lot of powered rails and a lot of red torches being used.

Oh God I just realized...we'd prob have to secure the rail a bit by placing the red torch under the rail to keep it out of harm's way, right? That involved digging a small hole to get it under there in the first place. Bugger.

So everything added by Notch makes it realistic? Like lightning hitting pigs making them pigmen? Or the whole Creeper thing, a creature that simply walks over to you and blow up?

Kahr

Considering the fact that Notch is the one who invented the Minecraft Universe then yes, whatever he adds is realistic to the universe that HE created.

That doesn't mean that other peoples ideas are incompatible with the Minecraft Universe, just that you can't claim that things which were never intended to be possible are magically realistic because they exist.

Yes, it is a bug/glitch, and using it may be an exploit of said bug/glitch, but I fail to see how keeping it around is a bad thing. I'm sorry, but your reasoning about "it not being realistic to the Minecraft universe" is something I just don't agree with. There is so much more good coming out of having it around than removing it all together.

Kahr

You are just annoyed that you will no longer be able to cheat and have a low cost method to power minecarts. It has nothing to do with if its realistic or not.

I do not see the reason why.

Kahr

Its an exploit, an unintentional feature... Think i mentioned this before. It was never notches intention to have a way of making minecarts travel at very high speeds for long distances. I don't see how you can claim not to see that as a valid reason even if you don't believe in that reason as a just cause to remove it.

Oh God I just realized...we'd prob have to secure the rail a bit by placing the red torch under the rail to keep it out of harm's way, right? That involved digging a small hole to get it under there in the first place. Bugger.

DavH27

Thats the best way. Its what did on a small track i made. Its a good way of hiding them from view. Note that i had to place the powered rail before i placed the torch, if i did it the other way around then it wouldn't be lit up.

dunno if this has been said before, as i skipped most of this page to only read the points, but notch said on his twitter that he's giving powered rails more power to compensate us for the loss of boosters.

Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
What will be, will be.

You are just annoyed that you will no longer be able to cheat and have a low cost method to power minecarts. It has nothing to do with if its realistic or not.

Stucuk

Low cost? The cboosters have cost me a lot of iron to make. Sure, it costs less iron than redecorating the entire system with powered rails would've cost in gold - but how can I be angry about not cheating then? Because I can kit powered rails - I cannot kit iron or carts. And it's not it being realistic I'm arguing about, but neither am I annoyed about having a low cost cheating way to power minecarts. If I had to pour ridiculous amounts of iron into it, I'd STILL do it, simply because no matter how you twist and turn it, the cbooster effect will always be the best way to travel great distances. Yes, this includes how many powered rails you put on a track.

If you are going to continue a discussion (even though I had given some juicy hints that I was ready to end it), then at least do not assume this or assume that. Either you're not bothered to properly read what I type, or you're actually just assuming I think this or I believe that. I never stated neither that I thought it was realistic - or that that was the reason I wanted the cbooster effect to stay.

Its an exploit, an unintentional feature... Think i mentioned this before. It was never notches intention to have a way of making minecarts travel at very high speeds for long distances. I don't see how you can claim not to see that as a valid reason even if you don't believe in that reason as a just cause to remove it.

Stucuk

I never said I did not see the "valid reason" behind removing it. If that's what you think, then please, do go back and re-read all of my posts, because clearly you've missed something, or you're just making assumptions.

I'm done arguing about the cbooster now. I have pointed out all of my views, and if you still cannot understand why I say this and that, then leave it be.

Oh God I just realized...we'd prob have to secure the rail a bit by placing the red torch under the rail to keep it out of harm's way, right? That involved digging a small hole to get it under there in the first place. Bugger.

DavH27

Digging down under the track is simple if you actually had something to dig down under in the first place. This is the least of my worries... Now trying to place redstone torches under the skyrail to hide them from view - THAT's a challenge!